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Back buttering may be necessary. >> Counting and finding real solutions of an equation. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. You may need to allow this fast-setting thinset to cure for four to six hours before walking on it. Relative to thinset, epoxy mortar sets quickly, allowing you to get to the grouting of the tile within just a couple of hours. Schluter mortars can be used over gypsum substrates. /ModDate (D:20230501134756+00'00') Hunker may earn compensation through affiliate links in this story. Additionally, the moisture will not be drawn out of the thin set mortar as quickly. Thin-set mortar has a variety of applications, including underlayment for tile, concrete repairs and decorative surfacing. Thinset or mortar (or thinset mortar, thinset cement, dryset mortar, or drybond mortar) is an adhesive made of cement, fine sand, and a water retaining agent such as an alkyl derivative of cellulose. /Outlines 2 0 R But it will work with modified thinset? It is impervious to water, so it does not need any special latex additives, as does some thinset. For concrete substrates, remove any waxy or oily films and curing compounds (if present) by mechanical scarification (take steps to not to breath in any residual dust). 2. With most kinds of thinset, it's generally advisable to wait at least 48 hours after application before walking on or applying pressure to the tile. Due to the difficulty in mixing and working with epoxy mortars, they tend to be used by professional tile installers more than by do-it-yourselfers. Even though it is heavy to carry and more expensive than dry mortar mix, the ease and convenience of premixed thinset mortar make it ideal for do-it-yourselfers. /ProcSet 4 0 R Step Four: Dust and dirt can cause thinset to bond poorly. The mixture shrinks and hardens as it dries. If you have a large area of mortar in a closed space, place a dehumidifier in the space to remove moisture from the air. NEVER add more water to thinset thats getting hard in the bucket. Thinset, sometimes called "mortar" or "thinset mortar", is a setting material to attach tile or stone to a surface. Products | Resources | Interactive Tools | Warranties | Privacy Policy | TechnicalTraining, Waterproofing Membranes And Underlayments, Longest side of tile less than 8" use 1/4" x 1/4" x 1/4" (6 x 6 x 6 mm) Square-Notch, Longest side of tile 8" to 15" use 1/4" x 3/8" x 1/4" (6 x 9.5 x 6 mm) Square-Notch. Manage Settings What are your thoughts? 14 0 R Sign up to my newsletter to receive expert advice for your home! >> But if it cures too slowly, it takes forever to get to the grouting stage. Installation can be made on a damp surface, but new concrete must cure for at least 28 days before adhering the tile. /I5 16 0 R Direct sunlight or high temperatures may cause flash setting or skinning of the mortar. En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. All Schluter mortars are suitable for use in exterior applications. to set and gain strength Can Schluter ALL-SET and Schluter FAST-SET modified thin-set mortars be used to set tile over Schluter boards and membranes? Temperatures must range between 60 and 90 F for proper installation. How do I improve the slope of my mud bed and make it smoother for final tile layer? By creating an account you agree to the Hunker. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Often you must stay off the new tile floor 48 hours before starting to grout the floor. Consult the stone Can Schluter mortars be used with resin-backed tiles? If you are dealing with multiple spaces, then you may want to consider a dry mix to save money. The point at which it is too stiff to realistically work anymore. /Producer ( d o m p d f + C P D F) The shelf life of SET and ALL-SET is two years, while the shelf life for FAST-SET is one year. To ensure proper drying, follow manufacturer guidelines, maintain appropriate temperature and humidity levels, properly prepare the substrate, and adhere to . Using an appropriate sized notched trowel, comb additional mortar using the notched side of the trowel. Can be used for small repairs. Thinset tile mortar provides a very strong bond and is resistant to moisture and mold growth. /MediaBox [0.000 0.000 595.280 841.890] Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. Another advantage of thinset is that it allows you to level uneven surfaces to some degree. Which thin-set can be used to install large format and/or heavy tile? Je peux rejeter les cookies non essentiels en cliquant sur Grer mes prfrences . Thinset mortar is your default tile mortar for most indoor and outdoor applications. If you keep the thinset powder in a hot truck, direct sunlight or a cold garage, let it come to room temperature indoors before mixing it up and using it. Are phosphate floor screws suitable for subfloor which will be covered in thinset and cement board? Step Four: Dust and dirt can cause thinset to bond poorly. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Any leveling of the subfloor must be done prior to application of Schluter FAST-SET. The TEC Quick Flex works well, and also Custom Speed Set. Follow gypsum manufacturers directions for additional substrate preparation. Bob, the thinset bag has a list of times on it. For time-critical installations Grout in 3 hours - traffic in 4 hours Great for tile repairs and smaller jobs It only takes a minute to sign up. 3 0 obj Lee has over two decades of hands-on experience remodeling, fixing, and improving homes, and has been providing home improvement advice for over 13 years. After 12-24 hours you should be okay for light traffic and grouting; but that grout will also need to set 12-24 hours; and preferably should be sealed before you start having major foot traffic/parties; you can probably _just_ eek by getting it grouted, but your thinset wont have full strength and you're potentially risking your . Extreme temperatures can slow down the process, so it's important to take the current weather into account when planning your tiling timeline. Accelerators speed up the set but not the full cure time as they react with the cement part of the mix. The thickness of your thinset layer will also affect curing time. Use premixed mortar for spaces such as small bathrooms, mudrooms, or utility rooms. Be especially careful not to use hot water or hot mortar. Fast setting, polymer modified mortar ideal for fast track or cold weather jobs. Thanks! Back-buttering is a useful way to help ensure proper coverage, particularly when installing 12" x 12" (305 mm x 305 mm) and larger tiles. How to Work with Schluter Thin-Set Mortars, Schluter-Systems: Position on Thin-set Mortar. Consider learning about yourself a bonus. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. I think your concrete accelerator will work - as far as drying faster. Many thin-sets have latex and polymer additives in them designed to increase bonding strength. /I4 13 0 R Cures rapidly to allow grouting within 2 hours and traffic within 6 hours. This can be a deficit because it provides only a short window of time to make changes. Find the website that's made specifically for you. However will it cure faster or cause an issue with the cure. If the mortar skins over, remove and re-apply fresh mortar. So do you have any rough data on dry times with mortar? Epoxy-based mortars have high compressive strength and stick well to resin-backed stones. But if you mix too much, you can't "un-mix" it. stream We respect your email privacy. For time critical installations, cures rapidly to allow grouting within two hours and traffic within 6 hours. Ah yes, saw that in the title and I fixed that thank you! However, the Schluter-Shower System details Can Schluter mortars be used with moisture-sensitive stone? To DITRA or KERDI products: Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Product Name SpeedSet Fortified Thin-Set Mortar 2. That's why you dial in the proper consistency while mixing at the first stage. Bonded waterproofing and vapor-retardant membrane, Uncoupling membrane for DITRA-HEAT-E-HK electric floor heating cables, Waterproof, multifunctional tile substrate and building panel, Uncoupling membrane with integrated sound control and thermal break, Contact us: 888-472-4588 Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. For glass mosaic tile which requires an epoxy setting material, use LATAPOXY 300 Adhesive. The stuff I used was from HD and measured to the instructions. This adhesive material is made from Portland cement and fine sand. /I2 11 0 R People have been beating the heat around the world for centuries without plugging anything in. When using DITRA-ROLLER, place a weight (e.g., bag(s) of mortar/grout or box of tile) not to exceed 75 lbs (34 kg) on the DITRA-ROLLER shelf. CustomTech offers real solutions to the challenges contractors face on the job every day, whether its a common issue like young concrete -- or the challenge of pumping leveler up 60 stories in high-rise construction. Color: Gray. a. ANSI A118.1 is the American National Standard What is the difference between grey and white mortar? For Un-sanded Grout: Add 2.5 pints of cool, potable water for each 10 lb. Schluter Systems modified thin-set mortars have been specifically formulated Notched trowels are metering devices. The substrate must be clean, even, and load bearing. /I8 21 0 R Make sure to observe the open time of the thin-set mortar. On the downside, epoxy mortar is more expensive than thinset and has a strong smell while it cures. Schluter FAST-SET is smooth and creamy, as well as easy to handle and spread. I am looking into a cement mix accelerator from homedepot and I am wondering if cement accelerators would be a good way to cut the setup time so I can grout within about 12 hours. Interpreting non-statistically significant results: Do we have "no evidence" or "insufficient evidence" to reject the null? endobj Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. And sometimes the type of tile itself is a determining factor. For complete installation guidelines and warranty criteria, please download the appropriate Schluter Installation Handbook and view the installation videos available below. What is the difference between modified and unmodified thin-set mortar? (301) 205-5570, This site uses technical and analytical cookies to ensure we give you the best experience on our website. Its a product that can cause skin irritation. And stir it occasionally by hand with a margin trowel. Fortunately, tile adhesives have evolved to the point where all of those demands can be successfully handled. Cost/ft 2. Schluter recommends making separate mixes for each process. Light traffic in 4 hours. Could these ideas work for your home today? Count: 1. Cons. /I10 25 0 R It is on every bag of thinset I have bought from HD. Epoxy mortars are resistant to a wide variety of chemicals. 5 0 obj The thinset will get in the way of grout youll apply later. Someone may have a better answer than mine but they would have to have tested specific products and ratios and give you their experience - not thinking you will get that but who knows. Mortar ridges should run in one direction. Houzz utilise des cookies et d'autres technologies de suivi similaires pour personnaliser mon exprience utilisateur, me proposer du contenu pertinent et amliorer ses produits et services. Dry-set mortar is comprised mostly of cement, sand, and a water retention agent, and is also called unmodified Why did Schluter Systems change its position on thin-set mortar? It must be easy to work with, and it must adequately fill in gaps between the tile and the substrate. What is the shelf life of Schluter thin-set mortars? Some types of thinset also have polymers or other ingredients added to help make the thinset more workable and stronger. Solidly embed the tile in the mortar, pushing the tile in a back and forth motion to collapse the mortar ridges. The TCNA says modified in their installation handbook and with my experience modified is best for tiles and that's how I do it, but I am looking for a better way of cutting the setup time of modified thinset on top of a vapor barrier type product. Back-buttering is a useful way to help ensure proper coverage, particularly when installing 12" x 12" (305 mm x 305 mm) and larger tiles. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. What Is the Ratio of Water to Mortar for Thinset Tile Installation. Pigmented epoxy mortars do not leak onto ceramic or porcelain tile. Find out exactly what you need for complete coverage. b. Schluter-KERDI family of waterproofing products: Apply a thin layer of the mortar with the flat side of the trowel to produce solid contact with the fleece. Mastic vs Thinset for Backsplash Wear high-quality kneepads or kneel on a very soft rubber gardening or similar cushion. Working time is how long you have to get the tile in it's final position before you mess up the bond. Continue mixing for 2-3 minutes until the mortar consistency is smooth and lump-free. Speak to a Daycon representative today for pricing and ordering information. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. How long thinset mortar needs to cure, or dry, varies by manufacturer. I mixed 50/50 with regular thin set and seemed to get a much better working time with it, and still had set tiles after a couple hours, just not 30 minutes. Proper installation results in full contact between the fleece webbing and the mortar. << /Type /Catalog SpeedSet Fortified Thin-Set Mortar is a strong polymer-modified mortar that sets quickly for time critical installations. For installing Schluter membranes, use 7 8 qts (6.6 7.6 L) of water to 50 lbs (22.7 kg) of mortar. I would personally never use them and for tile that large I would give it 3-4 days. So, unfortunately for DIYers new to working with this material, it's tough to find a definitive answer about how long to let thinset mortar cure. I think that will be product/chemical dependent and has to do with the ratios you are using. Shelf Life and Storage: 1 year from the date on the side of the bag if unopened, not allowed to freeze, and stored off the ground in a dry, cool area protected from direct sunlight, heat sources and the weather. Once the batch is mixed, it may start to harden so quickly that you can't spread it evenly. Size: 25 lb. Guess what? Thinset is also heatproof, so it will not lose its grip in hot environments. I understand that there is an issue overall but that's part of the job. The latex fortified thin set mortars provide a longer working time, and adjustability time. Thanks for this! Excess or standing surface water must be removed prior to installation. Posts: 432. Use quick-setting polymer-enhanced mortar. I believe Grani-Rapid by Mapei achieves its full strength faster than either the TEC or Custom. Large format tiles is a big trend here and a constant issue. Clean all excess mortar from tile and joints while mortar is still plastic using a sponge and clean water. Any moisture underneath the mortar will leach into the mixture and slow the drying time. Slow curing time. Suitable tile types include vitreous . Now the thinset is ready for use. We havent changed our position on thin-set mortar use within our systems. 4. Schluter FAST-SET is suitable for use with ceramic, porcelain, and stone tile, including large and heavy tile, in conjunction with Schluter-Systems uncoupling and waterproofing membranes (e.g., DITRA, DITRA-HEAT, KERDI, etc. The last time I used premixed. Wash off all thinset from your skin and from any tile surface. SQUARE FOOT COVERAGE PER 25 LB BAG (SQUARE METER PER 11.34 KG). Also this is for an indoor job. Copyright CUSTOM Building Products 2023 By creating an account you agree to the Hunker. Step Five: When setting tile into the thinset mortar, its important the entire tile contacts the fresh mortar. Excellent for commercial use and cold temperature installations, as well as small residential jobs and repairs. After pot life expires, the product is considered to be unusable. Saltillo tiles are very porous and highly absorptive which can quickly draw moisture out of conventional dry-set (ANSI A118.1) thin set mortars. For outdoor jobs, it's best to only apply thinset when it's between 40 and 95 degrees Fahrenheit. In home improvement projects, rushing almost never pays off. Total Cost. This has to happen before you can grout or walk on your newly installed tile, and doing those things before the thinset cures can ruin the uniform appearance you worked so hard to achieve. The thinset mortar should have a consistency of warm cake icing. For tile repairs and small jobs, also great for commercial use and cold temperatures. That information is included on the bag, or should be. Look on the bags of mortar for the recommended trowel size. Thinset tile mortar has a smooth, slippery consistency, similar to mud. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Wipe surfaces with a damp sponge to remove dust and dirt just before applying the thinset. What were the most popular text editors for MS-DOS in the 1980s? Can I use Schluter mortars to bond to a gypsum concrete substrate? Houzz Pro: One simple solution for contractors and design pros, Thats not just a crumb-strewn counter or a yard scattered with leaves. Developing our own Why would Schluters modified thin-set be ok to use, but not other manufacturers modified thin-set? It is obvious that there is a large concern about getting air to your thinset. The amount of water required to achieve the desired consistency will vary slightly based on site Can you add water to the mix after the slake period? /Font << It cannot cure too fast: Otherwise, you do not have adequate working time. endobj ] Why don't we use the 7805 for car phone chargers? Pkg Specs. View Specs. Heat the surrounding environment with a room heater, or direct the heat towards the mortar. Yes. For the conventional two-step process of thin-setting and grouting, use Glass Tile Adhesive Mortar, 254 Platinum (white), or 257 Titanium (white). 22 0 R For tile repairs and small jobs, also great for commercial use and cold temperatures. For Schluter membranes the mortar should be mixed to a fairly fluid consistency, but still able to hold a notch. Please contact your Schluter representative or Customer Support at 800-472-4588 regarding the What type of thin-set should I use in an exterior application? [/PDF /Text /ImageC ] Thinset takes a long time to dry which makes it possible for vertically mounted tiles to sag during this period. In standard conditions (70F How soon can I grout when using FAST-SET. Curing and GroutingMaintain ambient and surface temperatures between 40F to 95F (4 C to 35 C). It's generally advisable to aim for an even layer of about 3/16-inch thick. /Count 4 This will have the same effect on the evaporation rate as heat. 7 0 obj Apply a thin layer of the mortar with the flat side of the trowel to produce solid contact with the substrate. Allow grout to relax or slake for 15 minutes, then remix. Clean all excess mortar from tile and joints while mortar is still plastic using a sponge and clean water. SpeedSet Fortified Thin-Set Mortar 1. Temperatures must range between 60 and 90 F for proper installation. 1.a. /Parent 3 0 R 4. Mortar ridges should run in one direction. Schluter recommends mixing full batches with measured amounts of water to learn the correct How precise must the measuring of water used for mixing be? Quik Flex Accelerated Thin Set Mortar is a polymer-modified, fast-setting, general-purpose mortar designed to be used in a wide range of applications, over plywood, cementitious surfaces and other substrates. Which Schluter mortar should I use to install glass tile? Well since I didn't live in the houses I am not sure about the results but on at least 2 jobs my crew used accelerators and the thinset became brittle to the floor upon drying. The damp surface also helps to increase the bond, especially in hot, dry weather. Clean all excess mortar from tile and joints while mortar is still plastic using a sponge and clean water. Allow the grout to slake to 10 minutes, then remix. Disadvantages of Using Thinset for Backsplash. << /Type /Outlines /Count 0 >> Periodically remove and check tile to ensure sufficient coverage is being attained (>80% for dry applications, >95% for exterior or shower applications see ANSI A108.5). (866) 432-9266, 2023 Daycon, An Envoy Solutions Company | Privacy Policy | Contact Us, New Customers No, after the mortar is initially mixed no water or powder should be added. << /Type /Page Yes. Calling all Jennair 48 built in owners? 3. What are the advantages of running a power tool on 240 V vs 120 V? Pot life for most epoxy tile mortars is about 45 minutes. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! Mastic is very sticky, grabs fast, and is quick setting. Thinset is inexpensive and it fills in gaps and depressions. Manufacturer Custom Building Products Technical Services 10400 Pioneer Boulevard, Unit 3 Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670 Customer Support: 800-272-8786 Technical Services: 800-282-8786 Fax: 800- 200-7765 Email: contactus@cbpmail.net custombuildingproducts . Mix the grout by hand mixing, or low-speed drill. 2. To remove the backsplash with thinset, a lot of effort and considerable labor is needed to demolish that area. Since thinset tile mortar may crack, you may wish to mix it with a special latex additive to increase its strength. Schluter FAST-SET can be used in both interior and exterior systems and is available in both grey and white. For time critical installations, cures rapidly to allow grouting within two hours and traffic within 6 hours. rev2023.4.21.43403. Thin-set mortar is less likely to crack if it dries slowly, but if you need it to dry more quickly to avoid damage to it, you can speed up the process. >> Epoxy mortars are resistant to a wide variety of chemicals. Remix for one full minute. Whether you use wall or floor tile, that tile needs to thoroughly stick to its base surface. Do not add more water after mixing. The working time of the mixture can vary, considering several things. 1. Step Two: Read the instructions on the bag of thinset mortar and follow them to the letter. 4 0 obj c. Tile: Solidly embed the tile in the mortar, pushing the tile in a back and forth motion to collapse the mortar ridges. Clean tools with water while mortar is plastic. It is sag-resistant and ideal for setting tile on both horizontal and vertical surfaces. What Is the Ratio of Water to Mortar for Thinset Tile Installation? Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. For tile repairs and small jobs Strong polymer-modified mortar /I6 17 0 R I'm certain it would depened on temperature, humidity and how much water you mixed in. 2 0 obj /CreationDate (D:20230501134756+00'00') I can say that if you mix it in a plastic container that it will set up quicker than if you used a metal container. Price Per Pkg. For tile repairs and small jobs Strong polymer-modified mortar Be sure the surface youre applying the thinset to is clean, dust-free and in very good condition. Can I use Kerdi Board instead of Cement Board to thinset natural stone tile? %PDF-1.3 Clean Up Why do some of the Schluter mortars have more than one standard on the packaging? The problem isn't the use of the accelerator, it is the effectiveness of it and how it might effect the outcome. Mechanical strength is strong, so they hold the tile firmly in place and resist compression. Mastic can give off a sharp, strong odor that takes time to dissipate. SpeedSet Fortified Thinset Powdered Mortar. Great product, my only issue is the size of the bag which is much smaller then a normal bag. 18 0 R >> Recommended minimum coverage (80% for dry areas and 95% for wet areas and exteriors). But I am risk adverse especially when the risk I am taking is mitigated by me doing "nothing" for a couple of days. Thin-set mortar is a suitable substrate for laying ceramic tile. << These membranes help to prevent cracks in the finished tile. All Schluter Systems thin-set mortars, including the ALL-SET and FAST-SET modified varieties can be used to set tile over DITRA Can I use other manufacturers modified thin-set mortars to install tile over Schluter boards and membranes? When bonding to particularly dry, porous concrete, the slab should be moistened to saturate the concrete and help prevent premature drying or skinning of the bond coat. Pot life is how long it stays good in the bucket. I'm having a tough time estimating how much water to start with for the amount of dry mix and end up mixing too much thinset. Which ability is most related to insanity: Wisdom, Charisma, Constitution, or Intelligence? 4. 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Note that mortar coverage does not include backbuttering tiles. 1 0 obj The more product you use, the longer it will take to dry plus, your tile may not adhere well to a heavy layer of mortar. Engineered to exceed the most stringent requirements, CustomTech products deliver exceptional strength, durability and ease of use. Step Six: Working with thinset on floors is very hard on your knees. You can access a handy quick start guide with more tips and a full tool list here: Thinset Quick Start Guide. Could get an hour and a half or so, depending. Letting thinset mortar cure is a critical part of making sure your tiling job looks pristine when it's done. No. Slowly add powder while beginning to mix. If you use a mixer, they will both set up faster. Receive access to helpful resources and ensure youre operating successfully long-term. The damp surface also helps to increase the bond, especially in hot, dry weather. Schluter FAST-SET is a specialized, fast-setting modified thin-set mortar for use as a bond coat within tile assemblies that is optimized for use with Schluter membranes and boards. First time mixing up thinset from the bag. Needs higher temperatures for installation. I took a quick look at the installation and it didn't show are setup or dry time at all. How much thin-set do I need to install tile over DITRA or DITRA-HEAT? Any general rule for working time for modified thinset? << /Type /Pages 16001 Trade Zone Ave. Step Seven: As you install tile, avoid excess thinset from squeezing up in between tiles. Because thinset is not affected by moisture, it is best for floor tile and any tile in wet areas, including shower floors, walls, and ceilings and tub surrounds. Can I use cement accelerator to decrease setup time of modified thinset, New blog post from our CEO Prashanth: Community is the future of AI, Improving the copy in the close modal and post notices - 2023 edition. Our position on the use of other manufacturers thin-set mortars within our systems in general has What is the difference between the ANSI standards? This full line of flooring prep products incorporates the most advanced technologies available. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Additionally, epoxy mortar sets quickly. 2. With your experience Ed Beal, have you found a good ratio that works best? /F2 9 0 R What is the working time of Schluter mortars? To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Did the Golden Gate Bridge 'flatten' under the weight of 300,000 people in 1987? Get daily tips & tricks to help make your best home, Floating Tile Floors: Basics and Availability, How to Remove Grout, Mortar, and Drywall Mud From a Bathtub, Tile Mastic vs. Thinset Mortar: Buying Guide. Related documentation Technical Data Sheet Download Sustainability Product Report Download Volatile Organic Compound Download endobj If allowed to dry and cure, it can be nearly impossible to remove the thinset. Following this procedure will produce the best workability and help ensure maximum open time and pot life. SpeedSet is a quick-setting, polymer-modified mortar. Circulate the air around the mortar with a fan and keep the space ventilated to maximize air flow.

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